The State of Stock Electronics?
12-02-2016, 07:44 PM
#1
Thread Starter
The State of Stock Electronics?
I've only been into this fine hobby for about 4 years now (before tanks I was into static aircraft and model RR) but just in that short time stock electronics have come a long way. The first tank I ever bought had the old 27mhz (sp?) and the eye poker antennae and I converted those to stock Taigen 2.4 GHz before finally getting into hobby grade stuff, but I long for the day when I can buy a ready to run tank that I have no desire to put a hobby grade board into and just concentrate on the modeling, painting and details. One of these days I'll do a Tamiya and I think that will satisfy all my desires, but for now I'm sticking to the lower cost stuff (even though I now have tanks that I've invested much more in than I would have spent on a tammy). Anyway, I've been pondering this subject and as usual, that resulted in a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPij6jBUYFg So what do you guys think? What parts of today's stock electronics do you like, and what parts would you like to see changed? What would those changes have to be to make you happy? What would it take for you to keep a tank completely stock on the inside and just concentrate on making it look cool? And for how many are the electronics your favorite part of the hobby? Installing new boards and adding special features like servo machine guns and TCs that turn their heads?
Hopefully the manufacturers will hear your voice and make it happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPij6jBUYFg So what do you guys think? What parts of today's stock electronics do you like, and what parts would you like to see changed? What would those changes have to be to make you happy? What would it take for you to keep a tank completely stock on the inside and just concentrate on making it look cool? And for how many are the electronics your favorite part of the hobby? Installing new boards and adding special features like servo machine guns and TCs that turn their heads?
Hopefully the manufacturers will hear your voice and make it happen.
12-02-2016, 08:04 PM
#2
Hi , I thought the older 2.4 leo I got recently felt more proportional..But I think it may just be the Sherman Is smaller lighter and faster so it does more of the lock one track like you are saying when trying to drive slow..... This track lock only happens when going slow when your almost in the center stick position I think because that's how you do super fast spins.... and because the leo is slower you need to push the stick more up position so it feels like it works better and the sherman to go slow the stick needs to be more close to the center position and when you turn at that slow it starts the fast spin type movement.
What should be improved... the jerk back of the tank it could be a 1/4 of what it is and it would be way better and also they should have still let you shoot the main gun sound by the K button because the airsoft is so noisy it spoils the sound.
What should be improved... the jerk back of the tank it could be a 1/4 of what it is and it would be way better and also they should have still let you shoot the main gun sound by the K button because the airsoft is so noisy it spoils the sound.
I've only been into this fine hobby for about 4 years now (before tanks I was into static aircraft and model RR) but just in that short time stock electronics have come a long way. The first tank I ever bought had the old 27mhz (sp?) and the eye poker antennae and I converted those to stock Taigen 2.4 GHz before finally getting into hobby grade stuff, but I long for the day when I can buy a ready to run tank that I have no desire to put a hobby grade board into and just concentrate on the modeling, painting and details. One of these days I'll do a Tamiya and I think that will satisfy all my desires, but for now I'm sticking to the lower cost stuff (even though I now have tanks that I've invested much more in than I would have spent on a tammy). Anyway, I've been pondering this subject and as usual, that resulted in a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPij6jBUYFg So what do you guys think? What parts of today's stock electronics do you like, and what parts would you like to see changed? What would those changes have to be to make you happy? What would it take for you to keep a tank completely stock on the inside and just concentrate on making it look cool? And for how many are the electronics your favorite part of the hobby? Installing new boards and adding special features like servo machine guns and TCs that turn their heads?
Hopefully the manufacturers will hear your voice and make it happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPij6jBUYFg So what do you guys think? What parts of today's stock electronics do you like, and what parts would you like to see changed? What would those changes have to be to make you happy? What would it take for you to keep a tank completely stock on the inside and just concentrate on making it look cool? And for how many are the electronics your favorite part of the hobby? Installing new boards and adding special features like servo machine guns and TCs that turn their heads?
Hopefully the manufacturers will hear your voice and make it happen.
12-02-2016, 08:33 PM
#3
For me it would have to be IR compatibility. Would be nice for new comers to be able to purchase an IR Taigen, Mato, Torro, etc and be able to battle out of the box. Never gonna happen, but I've seen too many people excited to get into the hobby till they learn they have to modify the tank to play. Of course your always going to have to mod motors, gearboxes, etc to be competitive but to be able to at least get on the field out of the box would do wonders for the IR side of the hobby. To me this is why Tamiya is still so attractive. Sure the electronics are getting dated, but they still provide sound ( still good enough for HL to rip off), lights, MG/main gun flash, gun/track recoil, and for the most part RELIABILITY out of the box, not to mention solid mechanics and you build it so maintenance is easier understood.
Last edited by TheBennyB; 12-02-2016 at 08:40 PM.
12-02-2016, 09:53 PM
#4
I'd like to be able to replace the sounds, and to use my hobby radios with them. I think the taigen guys are working in something like that. If the price is good, it might be a good side board.
12-03-2016, 03:52 AM
#5
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Gary does the panzer in the video have the same gearing and weight as the sherman? Im just asking because I put stock heng long electronics in my heavy tiger for a little bit and I thought it drove about the same as it did with the Taigen. Bit I didn't get to drive it side by side .
12-03-2016, 04:26 AM
#6
Thread Starter
The P3 weighs 6 lbs, 2 ounces, and the Sherman is 4 lbs, 6 ounces. The new Abrams is 6 lbs, 7 ounces and runs just like the Sherman, you can't really curve, it just locks one track, and it's actually heavier than the P3. I definitely see a major difference, which I suspect is due to better quality motor controllers in the Taigen board. I'll bet Erik could give us some good info on that part.
I hear what you're saying, Rad, and changing sounds is cool in itself, but for me I'd prefer a board with decent sounds just for one tank and I wouldn't want to change them. The thing I'd like to see in stock tanks is the proper sounds for the model of tank, instead of them all sounding exactly the same, as they do now. We all know that a Tiger doesn't sound like a Sherman doesn't sound like a T-34 doesn't like a King Tiger ... etc, etc.
Bret, you're right that we're never gonna see stock tanks that are Tamiya compatible IR battle tanks (except of course, for Tamiya tanks themselves), and that's kind of a shame. But what if the non tammy people upped their game in IR? Possibly a way to set weight class and get rid of that ridiculous squirming the stock tanks do when hit, and get a flash ring on the apple? Would that help, or would you still change them to tamiya compatibility?
And Steve, I totally agree about the track recoil. There are very few tanks that move that way at all, and even for the ones that do the stock recoil is waaaaaaay too violent! Death to track recoil!!!
I hear what you're saying, Rad, and changing sounds is cool in itself, but for me I'd prefer a board with decent sounds just for one tank and I wouldn't want to change them. The thing I'd like to see in stock tanks is the proper sounds for the model of tank, instead of them all sounding exactly the same, as they do now. We all know that a Tiger doesn't sound like a Sherman doesn't sound like a T-34 doesn't like a King Tiger ... etc, etc.
Bret, you're right that we're never gonna see stock tanks that are Tamiya compatible IR battle tanks (except of course, for Tamiya tanks themselves), and that's kind of a shame. But what if the non tammy people upped their game in IR? Possibly a way to set weight class and get rid of that ridiculous squirming the stock tanks do when hit, and get a flash ring on the apple? Would that help, or would you still change them to tamiya compatibility?
And Steve, I totally agree about the track recoil. There are very few tanks that move that way at all, and even for the ones that do the stock recoil is waaaaaaay too violent! Death to track recoil!!!
12-03-2016, 05:17 AM
#7
For me the tank sounds are as important as the paint. I want to have unique sounds, made by me. That's one of the reasons I love so much the ASP board: I can play hundreds of diferent sounds, commander voices, explosions, radio orders, music... Thats the most funny part for me.
I dont think we will see something like that in the near future for HL or taigen... But custumizable engine sounds and a couple of extra sounds like the Ibus would be great if they are cheap enough.
And yeah 1/4 of track recoil, please. Lol.
I dont think we will see something like that in the near future for HL or taigen... But custumizable engine sounds and a couple of extra sounds like the Ibus would be great if they are cheap enough.
And yeah 1/4 of track recoil, please. Lol.
12-03-2016, 05:40 AM
#8
I started as a static guy, so scale and aesthetics are the most important to me.
My first two tanks were Tamiya, the T1 and M4. Both worked flawlessly, T1 still does (the M4 became a T-34 then was split up but I assume lives on in other tanks. Bob has the original M4 hull, so three tankers are using it now).
Then I went to HL. This was back a while and I tried a Mako, then soldered my own DBC2, then bought the IC chip to make the DBC2 into a 3 and added the Benedini. I must have spent more hours on that StuG over the time
I had it than all my other tanks combined. Sold that and went back to Tamiya.
Knock them however you want, but they work each and every time you start it up, year after year.
I'm no stranger to electronics. I'm currently setting up an Arduino to animate an old Aurora Frankenstein model so that after a period of quiet, the head looks around then slowly drops his arms. When there's a loud enough noise it snaps back to it's original pose. I plan on animating an entire Tiger I crew like the skeletal TC that they'll open and close hatches, look around, etc at different times without stick input while I drive it.
Like this guy, but with a loader, driver and MG gunner too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONS58Loi5QY The Benedini is amazing, but when it comes down to it, however great the sound file you get into it, you're still pumping it through a small speaker, closed up in a plastic/metal box that's moving. Even the best Visaton can't clean it up enough to make a different to me over Tamiya's recordings.
I'm a music guy. I was the dude you knew who had the 6 foot speaker enclosures, tube amp and 40 band graphic EQ with the laser guided turntable. Even the best MP3 file is garbage, so a marginally better delivery system makes zero difference.
I spent a bunch of time cleaning up sample files to put in my RC destroyer. Thats with more space to drive some speakers. No matter how clean I get the whoop whoop, it's still 75 feet away from me on the water, moving.
That's my approach to RC, I want it to look like what's supposed to be, act like what it's supposed to be and just work when I want to. Like most of you, I have limited time to use these things, I want to drop a battery in it, have a few laughs and put it away. Spending more time figuring out why it's not doing something sucks the enjoyment out of it.
My first two tanks were Tamiya, the T1 and M4. Both worked flawlessly, T1 still does (the M4 became a T-34 then was split up but I assume lives on in other tanks. Bob has the original M4 hull, so three tankers are using it now).
Then I went to HL. This was back a while and I tried a Mako, then soldered my own DBC2, then bought the IC chip to make the DBC2 into a 3 and added the Benedini. I must have spent more hours on that StuG over the time
I had it than all my other tanks combined. Sold that and went back to Tamiya.
Knock them however you want, but they work each and every time you start it up, year after year.
I'm no stranger to electronics. I'm currently setting up an Arduino to animate an old Aurora Frankenstein model so that after a period of quiet, the head looks around then slowly drops his arms. When there's a loud enough noise it snaps back to it's original pose. I plan on animating an entire Tiger I crew like the skeletal TC that they'll open and close hatches, look around, etc at different times without stick input while I drive it.
Like this guy, but with a loader, driver and MG gunner too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONS58Loi5QY The Benedini is amazing, but when it comes down to it, however great the sound file you get into it, you're still pumping it through a small speaker, closed up in a plastic/metal box that's moving. Even the best Visaton can't clean it up enough to make a different to me over Tamiya's recordings.
I'm a music guy. I was the dude you knew who had the 6 foot speaker enclosures, tube amp and 40 band graphic EQ with the laser guided turntable. Even the best MP3 file is garbage, so a marginally better delivery system makes zero difference.
I spent a bunch of time cleaning up sample files to put in my RC destroyer. Thats with more space to drive some speakers. No matter how clean I get the whoop whoop, it's still 75 feet away from me on the water, moving.
That's my approach to RC, I want it to look like what's supposed to be, act like what it's supposed to be and just work when I want to. Like most of you, I have limited time to use these things, I want to drop a battery in it, have a few laughs and put it away. Spending more time figuring out why it's not doing something sucks the enjoyment out of it.
12-03-2016, 05:47 AM
#9
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I've built a few Tamiya tanks and purchased IBU2's for some of my Taigen IR tanks because I like to get as close as I can to realism. With the sounds available from Tamiya and the IBU2, along with barrel recoil and drivability, it gets me pretty close to the real thing. I just purchased one of the cheap HL Shermans with the new electronics. And though they (Heng Long) have started down the right track with the proportional turret speed and up for up and down for down barrel movement, the lack of barrel recoil leaves me still looking at Tamiya and Taigen IR tanks. Now improve the Tamiya sounds, make the MFU and DMD smaller and I would be a happy man.
12-03-2016, 07:54 AM
#10
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Im with ausf on this very well said!!!
"That's my approach to RC, I want it to look like what's supposed to be, act like what it's supposed to be and just work when I want to. Like most of you, I have limited time to use these things, I want to drop a battery in it, have a few laughs and put it away. Spending more time figuring out why it's not doing something sucks the enjoyment out of it."
Taigen had some new developments on the way, how long who knows, but if it what they say it is, its going to be pretty sweet! We will see.
I am to the point with all the mods trying to make each tank IR compatible, sound nice, and be reliable, (hence ausfs post),
I think I might cut my losses, save my time, and sell them all! The only 2 tanks anyone wants to drive is the Tamiya Pershing, and the BARC4/TBS. Only because they are so easy to drive, no goofy stick controls, very simple. I think I must just be losing intrest. Maybe in the future.
I admire so many of you guys compassion for these tanks, and the talent is remarkable!
Crius, its seems just a few months ago, you were knocked off your feet, but yet you are still hard at the Tanks,
now that dedication! Your videos are great, keep up the good work!
"That's my approach to RC, I want it to look like what's supposed to be, act like what it's supposed to be and just work when I want to. Like most of you, I have limited time to use these things, I want to drop a battery in it, have a few laughs and put it away. Spending more time figuring out why it's not doing something sucks the enjoyment out of it."
Taigen had some new developments on the way, how long who knows, but if it what they say it is, its going to be pretty sweet! We will see.
I am to the point with all the mods trying to make each tank IR compatible, sound nice, and be reliable, (hence ausfs post),
I think I might cut my losses, save my time, and sell them all! The only 2 tanks anyone wants to drive is the Tamiya Pershing, and the BARC4/TBS. Only because they are so easy to drive, no goofy stick controls, very simple. I think I must just be losing intrest. Maybe in the future.
I admire so many of you guys compassion for these tanks, and the talent is remarkable!
Crius, its seems just a few months ago, you were knocked off your feet, but yet you are still hard at the Tanks,
now that dedication! Your videos are great, keep up the good work!
12-03-2016, 08:14 AM
#11
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I am a die hard Tammy guy just because the stuff works. I don't like farting around with electronic stuff. I want to simply put it in and go, so I can concentrate on the build itself and then run the crap out of it without any electrical gremlins. Reliability is key with me above all else.
12-03-2016, 11:58 AM
#12
I am a die hard Tammy guy just because the stuff works. I don't like farting around with electronic stuff. I want to simply put it in and go, so I can concentrate on the build itself and then run the crap out of it without any electrical gremlins. Reliability is key with me above all else.
I had my share of doing all this when I was into automotive repairs... so soldering leads or connectors is about as far as I am willing to go these days.
Besides... I spend so much time on the build and all the detailed features on the exterior that I am SO anxious to start it up and drive!
Jeff
12-03-2016, 09:56 PM
#13
This is interesting since I got my Abrams days after yours from the same place and it curves beautifully with the Taigen V2 3:1 gears in it. I didn't really run it enough on the nylons to form an opinion. My guess is the bigger the tank and slower the gears, the more it hides the twitchiness of the HL electronics. Obviously 4:1 gears curve all day long since you have to floor them just to get the tank to move.
12-03-2016, 10:33 PM
#14
This is interesting since I got my Abrams days after yours from the same place and it curves beautifully with the Taigen V2 3:1 gears in it. I didn't really run it enough on the nylons to form an opinion. My guess is the bigger the tank and slower the gears, the more it hides the twitchiness of the HL electronics. Obviously 4:1 gears curve all day long since you have to floor them just to get the tank to move.
12-04-2016, 04:28 AM
#15
If you're talking HL or Taigen...
Keep:
- Current stick layout...drive on the right, turret and gun control on the left
- No "half-sticks"...some aftermarket have an action tied to pushing the control stick up or sideways halfway...too confusing and not simple enough for me to hand to my kid (the only way I'll be able to buy tanks when I'm really old is if kids today like them)
- Reverse-only lights (Taigen)...these light up only when the tank goes in reverse...not right for brakes, or rear markers, but good for a reverse light, if appropriate
- Separate switches...start-up/shut down, machine gun, etc
- 2.4 GHz
- Airsoft option...adds to the fun for me with my kids
- Proportional driving speed
- Smoker option...can be fun; some like it, some don't...having the option is nice
Add:
- Ability to change sounds via USB hook-up (one board, different sound profiles for different tanks)
- Ability to raise/lower main gun with stick (i.e., reverse the current to the elevation motor - push stick up = gun up; push stick down = gun down)
- Separate button (hold to fire, release to stop firing) for shooting the airsoft gun (or IR if so equipped)
- 360 degree turret rotation (HL & Tamiya)
- Proportional turret rotation and gun elevation
- LiPo cutoff
Change:
- Machine switch on the controller should be a button (hold to fire, release to stop firing) not a switch
- Warm yellow LEDs for all tank models produced before 2000, white LEDs for all models built after 2000
- Higher torque motors (Speed400, 480s, etc)
- Higher gear ratios ("4:1" gearboxes with larger motors are an excellent combination of torque and speed)
- Add spacing options to the gearboxes at the motor attachment points to allow different sized pinions to be used
Delete:
- Airsoft warning light...probably there for liability purposes, but it detracts from the model's realism
- Track recoil...completely unrealistic and distracting
Other tweaks that would be cool, but could just as easily live without...
- Main gun recoil synced with cannon sound
- Option to have rear lights/tail markers get brighter when slowing down (like brake lights...selectable with a jumper or something...not all tanks had brake lights)
- Add another plug in the main board for tail lights/rear markers with accompanying plug on the junction board on the upper hull (supports rear markers on both upper and lower hulls like US vs German WWII armor)
That's what I can think of right now.
Keep:
- Current stick layout...drive on the right, turret and gun control on the left
- No "half-sticks"...some aftermarket have an action tied to pushing the control stick up or sideways halfway...too confusing and not simple enough for me to hand to my kid (the only way I'll be able to buy tanks when I'm really old is if kids today like them)
- Reverse-only lights (Taigen)...these light up only when the tank goes in reverse...not right for brakes, or rear markers, but good for a reverse light, if appropriate
- Separate switches...start-up/shut down, machine gun, etc
- 2.4 GHz
- Airsoft option...adds to the fun for me with my kids
- Proportional driving speed
- Smoker option...can be fun; some like it, some don't...having the option is nice
Add:
- Ability to change sounds via USB hook-up (one board, different sound profiles for different tanks)
- Ability to raise/lower main gun with stick (i.e., reverse the current to the elevation motor - push stick up = gun up; push stick down = gun down)
- Separate button (hold to fire, release to stop firing) for shooting the airsoft gun (or IR if so equipped)
- 360 degree turret rotation (HL & Tamiya)
- Proportional turret rotation and gun elevation
- LiPo cutoff
Change:
- Machine switch on the controller should be a button (hold to fire, release to stop firing) not a switch
- Warm yellow LEDs for all tank models produced before 2000, white LEDs for all models built after 2000
- Higher torque motors (Speed400, 480s, etc)
- Higher gear ratios ("4:1" gearboxes with larger motors are an excellent combination of torque and speed)
- Add spacing options to the gearboxes at the motor attachment points to allow different sized pinions to be used
Delete:
- Airsoft warning light...probably there for liability purposes, but it detracts from the model's realism
- Track recoil...completely unrealistic and distracting
Other tweaks that would be cool, but could just as easily live without...
- Main gun recoil synced with cannon sound
- Option to have rear lights/tail markers get brighter when slowing down (like brake lights...selectable with a jumper or something...not all tanks had brake lights)
- Add another plug in the main board for tail lights/rear markers with accompanying plug on the junction board on the upper hull (supports rear markers on both upper and lower hulls like US vs German WWII armor)
That's what I can think of right now.
12-04-2016, 05:23 AM
#16
